Fracking something else again. I have a few comments about it.

1. Most of the Northern Tier counties are economically poor. The drilling has brought much needed business and opportunities, including training for jobs in the fracking industry.

2. The industry and the local college branch (I think it is part of Penn State now) set up a training program to train local people who want jobs. They offered (don't know if they still do) a $10,000 sign on bonus for those who entered the training program. The requirements are strict regarding being in class and on time, and no DUIs, etc. on their driving record. One of the problems is that quite a few of the trainees took the bonus money and then dropped out of the program. They were a little short sighted in grabbing $10K when after training, they would be pulling down much, much more. My guess is that most of them saw free money for a little work (training) and didn't want to actually do hard work.BTW, the reason so many people were imported from out of state to work on the projects is that we did not have enough qualified people here.The training was to help mitigate that problem.

3. Many claims of gas getting into water are not exactly bogus, but most of that is not due to fracking. Gas is close to the surface in much of the area, and it has been getting into the water systems for many, many years. The local water municipalities have been routinely filtering the gases off. I don't know what the people with wells did. Anyhow, my best friend  grew up in Mansfield and still maintains a house there. He knew people just down the street that would turn on their water and could light it with a match. This was when he was a child so that was at least 60 years ago. Newer folks to the area may not have been aware of the possibility not to mention those who saw a chance to blame it on a big corporation to get free remedy or money.


4. Keep in mind that waste water from fracking is generally sent out for recycling to be reused or released into the water systems. I am not real clear on how much water is "dumped" into the rivers and streams, but it much be partly recycled according to the Clean Water Act. Any water dumped upstream from a municipal water supply must be done no closer than whatever the current law requires. The bad part about this is that local municipal water companies are mostly old and were grandfathered in when the newer regulations regarding treatment is concerned. Being small and in poor areas, they do not have the money to upgrade. I don't know what the current status is regarding this problem. I believe I heard that they were working on building a water recycling plant nearby rather than trucking much of the waste water elsewhere. I don't know where we are with that either.

MarsGal - Thank you for the informative and interesting message on fracking, in PA.  I had no idea that it was such "big business", and so well organized. I would like to copy, paste, and send your post to my husband, as he is very interested in the subject.

I'm wondering if you've stared having earthquakes in PA, as they are now having in Oklahoma?  It concerns me when I hear about the 4 and 5 point quakes in OK. 
Callie, one of our members,  is from OK, and often posts in this discussion.  I hope she read your message and comes in to tell us about fracking in her state.

Marilyne, to my knowledge there haven't been any earthquakes in upstate PA that have been attributed to fracking. There were several small events in Lawrence County (above Pittsburgh) earlier this year. I don't know what they concluded about whether or not fracking had anything to do with them. That corner of PA and Ohio have a history of earthquake events. Your husband might be interested in this nicely presented report from PennState which seems to be pretty close to being up-to-date. http://extension.psu.edu/natural-resources/natural-gas/webinars/seismicity-in-pennsylvania-and-the-pennsylvania-state-seismic-network/seismicity-in-pennsylvania-and-the-pennsylvania-state-seismic-network-powerpoint

And this one from the League of Women Voters about what Harrisburg is considering regarding the fracking wells. It might interest you to know that unless they did so recently, PA does not have any regulations regarding AR and ASR wells which means they are regulated by the Feds only. Some states have regulations in place that are stricter than the Fed regs. The fracking injection wells would be classified as a Class II well. Click on Class II on the side bar of the EPA site I previously posted for more into on them.

Callie's here but prefers to stay away from the issue of fracking and earthquakes.
Obviously, it's a "hot topic" in this area because of the oil and gas industry being so strong.  My family has never been involved in either business.

I don't know enough about waste water disposal to discuss it intelligently - but I know the state has stopped some drilling companies from doing so deep underground.  I think discussion is ongoing about what to do with it otherwise.

News media tells how many earthquakes have happened within the last 24 hours but, unless it's more than a 3.0, doesn't comment any farther other than to give location.
I guess the tremors have become commonplace here in central Oklahoma (If OKC were a clock face, I'd live "north of noon").   A year or so ago,  the family was eating dinner at my son's house about 10 miles northeast of me when someone looked up and said,  "Earthquake?"  Someone else said, "Felt like it" - and everyone went right on eating.

Here is a link to a broadcast that was aired earlier this year on the subject of the numerous quakes in OK.   
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-oklahoma-rise-in-quakes-linked-to-man-made-causes/   

Hi Callie - Thanks for giving us an idea of what it's like to live in "earthquake country". Even though they aren't caused by the same seismic faults that cause our quakes here on the West Coast, they are still earthquakes - only of a different variety.  I can understand that it's a "hot topic" for the people in Oklahoma.  What a dilemma!

maryc - Thanks for the link to the 60-Minutes show.  That does explain the water injection, and then the disposal of the salty/brackish water.  I can certainly see how injecting it deep into that Arbuckle layer, is a dangerous thing, with obvious consequences. 

I just read a fabulous book, and I want to recommend it to everyone, everywhere!  The Summer of My German Soldier, by Bette Greene, copyright, 1973.  I started reading it yesterday, and couldn't put it down . . . stayed up last night very late to finish it. 

The story takes place in Arkansas, during World War II. It's about a 12 year old Jewish girl, who shelters a German soldier, who has escaped from a POW camp located outside of town.  The consequences of course, are grim, for all concerned. 

I came across this book, while going through the many  boxes and shelves of books that I have saved over my lifetime.  I'm planning to give them away to anyone who wants them, but there are some that are special to me, and I want to read them again.  Funny how you remember liking or loving a book from long ago, and when you read it again 40 years later, it is even more meaningful!  That's the case with this book. 

This morning I looked it up on Amazon, and see that it is still available after all these years, and is also on Kindle.  I'm sure it's available in most libraries across the country. I see that it was made into a "made for TV" movie, starring Kristy McNichol, in l978. 

Marilyne.  That book sounds so familiar. Maybe I read it years ago. Will check with the Library. I know I didn't watch the movie.

Library has it in regular Book. No LP or dvd.  I think maybe it came out on VCR It is pretty old.

I've about finished Mary Coin.   This was an interesting and quick read.   It made me think about our own lives through those years.     I feel that I was very very lucky.     We didn't have a lot but did have a roof over our heads and regular meals while so many lived such desperate lives.   It makes me appreciate more and more what our parents did to get our family through.

I will order "Mary Coin" at the library today. They don't have it in LP but will read it in a chair and not in Bed. Sound good.

maryc - Glad you liked Mary Coin.  I was a
"Depression baby", (1934) so don't remember the bad things about those years . . . only the good things. Both of my parents worked, and my grandmother lived with us and took care of me.  My dad was a truck driver and auto mechanic, and mom worked in an office.  They were very fortunate to have two incomes during those years. When my brother was born in 1937, she  quit work, and stayed home with us until my dad was drafted into the Navy in late 1942.  Then she went back to work for the duration.

I think you will like, The Summer of My German Soldier, by Bette Greene.   As I said in my earlier message, I was pulled right into this wonderful story. I started reading, and couldn't put the book down until I finished it that night.  Then I went to bed and thought about it for a long time.

That really sounds like a book I would like, Marilyne.  The kids in our neighborhood collected old metal objects to be recycled and used in the war effort.  On one occasion when the items were collected they sent out an Italian POW with the group and we were all excited to see a real POW.  He said to all us kids that he had a bambino at home and that the Americans were good to him.  It is one of those memories you just never forget.

I picked up My German Soldier (the book  )  at the library this afternoon.    It is a very old paper back copy but will be nice and light for reading in bed.

There was a German POW camp at Ft. Niagara, about 5 miles from here in the 1940s.     There must have been some long lasting friendships forged between the prisoners and some of the farmers that they worked for at that time.   A local woman has written several histories of the area and that time being included in one where she tells of communication for years afterward.   This is an interesting bit about what one of the men did while he was here at Ft. Niagara.   I believe that he came back some time later to visit.   

http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/exhib/murals/Ballest.html

That was really interesting, Mary C.

Jean - What a wonderful memory, about the Italian POW, who helped you with the scrap metal drive. Remembering what he said about his bambino, shows how favorably impressed you were, and what a nice young man he was.  Just think, he could still be alive somewhere in Italy, and maybe he also remembers that day? 

mary - It's interesting that both you and Jean had POW camps near the towns where you were living during the war.  I didn't realize that the prisoners worked for local citizens, and often became friends.  That is a beautiful mural at Fort Niagara, painted by Ernst Wille.  I plan to look him up online. I'd like to see other paintings/art work  that he has done. 

We lived in a suburb of Los Angeles, so it was too urban for a POW camp, anywhere near.  However, we were close to Santa Anita Race Track, which was the staging area for Japanese citizens before they were sent to the internment camps.  We had a Japanese girl in our class at school (must have been about 3rd grade).  One day she was gone, and our teacher told us that she and her family were waiting at Santa Anita, to be send away to a camp until the war was over.  I remember that a heavy silence hung over the room, and nobody said anything. I wanted to know more, and I'm sure the others did too, but in those days, children didn't ask questions like they do now.

Marilyne, I lived in West Virginia during WWII and although I was only 6, I was already reading the afternoon newspaper.  I remember horrible headlines about the Germans and Japanese.  There was no mention of the camps for the Japanese in California.  In 1965, my family moved to Monterey where my husband was a student at the U.S. Naval Post Graduate school.  We lived in Navy Housing.  Our best friends down the street were the Nakagawas.  Bob was on the U. of S. Carolina rifle team and Gordon was on the U of California (Berkeley) rifle team.  Their scores were often the top 2 in the nation.  So we became close friends.  One day Jeanne, Gordon's wife, and I were having coffee.  She asked me about the different places I'd lived.  At that time, she said she'd never left California except for the years they were sent to the camps.  I didn't know what she was speaking of and asked my husband.  He told me then that all the Japanese citizens were rounded up and confined to barracks inside barbed wire fences with military guards outside.  Her parents and Gordon's lost their family farms which were not restored to them until after 1960.  It's hard to believe, but true. 

I have learned since moving here to Auburn, AL, that there was a German prison camp in our neighboring town--no families, just captured soldiers--who were in prison.  Evidently it was toward the end of the war.  The prisoners were allowed to work for local farmers and small businesses and were returned to the camp after work. 

Sue

In my town in the UK. We also had 2 POW Camps . One for Italians and one for German.  They would work on the street repairs and some of the farms.  We would talk to the Italians but didn't care for the Germans although I know a few girls older than I was who got friendly with them.  They did seem to have it pretty easy specially the German Officers.  They sort of loved to still wear the fancy Uniforms and act different.  Don't think our British army boys had it as easy in their POW camps. Although the Red Cross did keep check on both side.
Now Many of men I knew were POW on Japan.  Different for them. Some came back in such bad shape.  3 of my friends fathers never did get right after coming home. Some had been taken prisoners way back in 1938.

My Dad was part of an advance team that set up Army hospitals and POW camps in England. I remember he said one time that he got along okay with the Germans. They called him "Mighty Mouth" after he cartoon character Mighty Mouse. Dad was only 5'4" and was a Staff Sgt.

I heard that a lot of the German POWs chose to stay in the US after the war and many eventually became citizens. My former father-in-law was one of those to were interred in Japanese POW camps. He was in such bad shape, all skin and bones. He lost half of his stomach because of his experience. Paul was captured in the Philippines just missing by an hour the infamous "Death March".

MarsGal - Great story about your father, known as "Mighty Mouth"!  When my dad was drafted into the Navy, he was 34 and 11 months. Thirty five was the age cut-off for draftee's, so they really must have needed men, at that point.   He was always the oldest in his company, so was jokingly called "Pop", or "The Old Man". Also, he was almost completely bald, so it made him look a lot older. He was one of those funny, likable type men, so he loved all the teasing and I'm sure he gave it right back!  

Good stories ladies about your fathers and FILs  in regard to service to our country.   Those were different times for sure.    My brother and I were talking about the difference between  the  POW camps here in this country and those that our service men were in overseas.   I wondered about the agreements between the countries regarding the treatment of prisoners of war and if there was ever any recourse for the inhuman treatment.

Marilyne,   I finished Summer of My German Soldier last evening.   It was a different little story.    I wondered about the abuse of that child being a part of a book that was written for young people that long ago.   Her father would have been in jail in these times. 

mary - Summer of My German Soldier, was written in 1973.  I don't think it was meant to be for young people?  There were very few books written for young people back then.  The Judy Blume books are the only ones I can remember my youngest daughter reading?  She was born in 1969, so would only have been four, when this book came out.  I think the term YA books, is fairly new - maybe in the last 20 years?  Now it's a very lucrative market, and there are hundreds of YA books published every year.  I noticed on Amazon, that "German Soldier", is now recommended for young adults, and even has a study guide that goes with it.

My daily cruise through Project Gutenberg garnered this little gem, a book of verses and such by J. S. Ogilvie, published in 1881, called The Album Writer's Friend. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/53404 Click on the html link to view on line, or download in ePub or Kindle formats. The scrapbookers and card makers among us might like to take a look.

MarsGal - I love the saying I found there:  May your coffee and slanders against you be ever the sameâ€"without grounds.

That is a good one Bubble!     I found one that I liked too.   It goes this way:  The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without adversity.   It caught my eye because I recently had saved another very similar.      If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror ever be polished?  Rumi
Thanks Marsgal for the reference!

Marilyne,   The copy of German Soldier that I had from the library was marked for Young Readers.  It would be interesting to hear comments from young readers on the story.

German Soldier is waiting for me at the library.  Not in LP and so I hope, as it is a old book that they print is not to small.

Jeanne - hope your copy has large enough print for you to read easily.

mary - I think it would be hard for today's teens or young adults to relate to "German Soldier"?  They have no context regarding war, prisoners, internment, etc. Our generation actually remembers those events, and can readily relate to the circumstances . . . as shown by the personal stories and memories that some of us have posted about in the past few days.

I'll be back later with a short list of good sounding books!

Marilyne,  I agree that the young readers of today would have little except what they might have read to base any connection to this story.

We are going out this evening to a concert on The Mighty Wurlitzer organ.   This organ is in a theater in a town nearby.    The theater is old and has had a long and large refurbishing program going on.    We used to attent these concerts once in a while but it has been a long time.   Al thought he would like to hear it again and see what has been done to the theater as well.    It will be fun.    Here is a link where you can see  and hear.
http://www.rivieratheatre.org/about/the-mighty-wurlitzer/

The Wurlizter company was based in this town.   It was a beautiful and very large  old factory that has been closed for many years.   It now houses a number of smaller companies.   As I was looking for the youtube that I posted,  I discovered many others that tell a lot of history about the Wurlitzer company.     We have always enjoyed organ music partly because we met at a roller rink and at that time the live music was provided by an organ.   Of course that was an electronic organ but good just the same.    A few years ago there was a Band Organ rally at another town near us.    Those were interesting and some of those were Wurlitzer products as well.  I didn't know until then that there was such an interest and such variety of instruments. 

Mary - Wish we could go to the Mighty Wurlitzer concert with you and Al, tonight.  We have a long history with theater and church organs, going back to the mid 1950's.  My Al is a big fan, and even helped a friend dismantle an old church pipe organ, and put it back together again in a huge Victorian mansion in San Jose.  This was right after we were married in 1956.  Oh those were the days of such enjoyment! 

There are so few of the Mighty Wurlitzers left now.  I haven't heard of a concert anywhere in many years.  I recall going to San Francisco to a concert by George Wright, at the Fox Theater.  I wonder if the Fox Theater with that Mighty Wurlitzer,  is still there?

I tried to listen to your YouTube video, but it wouldn't come up on my old computer.  I'll send the link to my Al, and we can both listen to it on his computer.  In the meantime, I'll read all about it!

Regarding the roller rinks and ice rinks . . . yes, there was always live music being played on an organ of some kind.  So romantic,  that you and Al met at a roller rink.

Maryc, I wish we could join you in the concert.  I listened to three of the songs but it refused me the last one.  I guess you have to have an account?  We went to an organ concert many years ago in a shopping mall when we lived in Maryland.  It was an electronic organ but the performer sure made it perform.  It was great.