periwinkle, your reply to my post was spoken like a true Liberal.  You have to wonder, using your argument, how we ever settled the U.S.  Since government was not there to give them food, medical care and pay for all the other necessities.

By the way I absolutely disagree that we pay taxes to care for others.  That has only come about since the 1960's when LBJ came up with his "great society"

Hal. what is your solution? Shoot the poor, uneducated, unemployed
citizens who are your equals by law.

The Heaven's Gate mass suicide to get a ride to heaven should teach
us something about Islamic martyrdom.  See what was happening
when religious leaders have the minds of and are the governing body.

Kill the infidel, die for your god, get to paradise and have 72 virgins.
I should go into the business of "reconstituting" virgins so there is an
ample supply.

We now have a bully in Washington who has paid off the help religious right of
Jerry Falwell and the anti-science anti-reality Fox News. 

Hal, you and June have brought your god beliefs into this religious
discussion and soon I will not be able to post mine.  Believe reality--
this country is becoming more non-religious and  secular as people
there is a new "dark ages" about to be legislated by and "all man"
National government led by a Hitler-like president.  Was Hitler sane?

Thanks Periwinkle for posting the truth about Hal's ridiculous
statements that sound good but lack substance.  Just like the
"war against drugs" has produced legislation that I cannot obtain
pain relief with any more than 3 pain pills a day and at 8 a.m.
2 p.m.  and 8 p.m. with a 12-hour wait in which pain build up
while I am in bed trying to sleep.  I became a bad egg carping
about it until I got it changed to one every 8 hours.  Why the
problem?  This was the institution's convenient delivery of
Richmond's idea of keeping me from addiction to pain. At 95, an
addiction that helped ameliorate my pain was acceptable.
What I had before was one legal pain pill every six hour prescribed
by a licensed MD.  Unfortunately I decided to enter an assisted-
living facility governed by VA legislation to  protect me from abuse.
Get an education and live in the REAL WORLD and keep your
beliefs in church where it belongs with freedom from government
meddling.  Stay out of my government with those beliefs.

Enough yet, it is 5 a.m. and I am waiting for my next pain pill.

Quote from: Ray Franz on March 29, 2017, 05:06:59 AM
Hal. what is your solution? Shoot the poor, uneducated, unemployed
citizens who are your equals by law.

No Ray shooting the poor, uneducated and unemployed is not the answer.  But spending our country into poverty is not the answer either.  The folks you mentioned have always been here and will continue no matter what government does. I saw the other day that each taxpayer has a debt of 361,000 dollars under our national debt.  And I certainly don't think it is my job as a taxpayer to furnish a cell phone to these folks

The Heaven's Gate mass suicide to get a ride to heaven should teach
us something about Islamic martyrdom.  See what was happening
when religious leaders have the minds of and are the governing body.

Kill the infidel, die for your god, get to paradise and have 72 virgins.
I should go into the business of "reconstituting" virgins so there is an
ample supply.

I know of no religion, other than the Muslims that believe as you describe.  How do you "reconstitute a virgin?"



We now have a bully in Washington who has paid off the help religious right of
Jerry Falwell and the anti-science anti-reality Fox News. 

You have stated several times that Trump is a bully, how so?  What has he done that makes you say that.  I know of nothing he has done that is even close to Hitler like.  That is a strong accusation to make with no facts to back it up.  How has Trump paid off Jerry Falwell and the (your words) anti-science, anti-reality Fox News.  Again, would you care to furnish some facts.




Hal, you and June have brought your god beliefs into this religious
discussion and soon I will not be able to post mine.

How have June and I caused you to not to be able to post your beliefs? That is just a plain old falsehood and you know it.  Post what you like, I don't have to read your post nor you mine.

Believe reality--this country is becoming more non-religious and  secular as people
there is a new "dark ages" about to be legislated by and "all man"
National government led by a Hitler-like president.  Was Hitler sane?

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. About Hitler, no I don't think he was sane at the end.



Thanks Periwinkle for posting the truth about Hal's ridiculous
statements that sound good but lack substance.  Just like the
"war against drugs" has produced legislation that I cannot obtain
pain relief with any more than 3 pain pills a day and at 8 a.m.
2 p.m.  and 8 p.m. with a 12-hour wait in which pain build up
while I am in bed trying to sleep.  I became a bad egg carping
about it until I got it changed to one every 8 hours.  Why the
problem?  This was the institution's convenient delivery of
Richmond's idea of keeping me from addiction to pain. At 95, an
addiction that helped ameliorate my pain was acceptable.
What I had before was one legal pain pill every six hour prescribed
by a licensed MD.  Unfortunately I decided to enter an assisted-
living facility governed by VA legislation to  protect me from abuse.



Ray, I am truly sorry you are suffering severe pain and I agree they should give you enough medication to keep it in check, but no enough that it makes you a drooling old man.  I too suffer from severe pain, but it can be controlled with Lidocane patches, but you can use only one at day for 12 hours otherwise it will cause skin problems. 

I have to laugh about your one statement, first you want government to do everything for us and then you say: "living facility governed by VA legislation to  protect me from abuse."  Unfortunately, when government runs things they always try to boil it down to one shoe fits all and you and I both know that isn't true.



Get an education and live in the REAL WORLD and keep your
beliefs in church where it belongs with freedom from government
meddling.  Stay out of my government with those beliefs.
Enough yet, it is 5 a.m. and I am waiting for my next pain pill.

Ray, I have an education and live in the real world.  I will keep my beliefs where I want, just as you keep your opinion where you want, as witnessed on this forum.  You express yourself, like perwinkle, very clearly with your statement: "Stay our of my government"  Ray it isn't "your government" it is "our government.
God Bless you Ray and may you find your Savior before it is too late [/b]

Our government, my government is a secular republic.  See how it
changed into a male, Christian democracy at our recent election.
That is the payback for Jerry Falwell's Christian Right support, which
along with Fox-news got Trump elected.

The military budget is being increased at the expense of education, science
and other areas of support.  As a retired educator, all I can say is that
knowledge is big, but ignorance is bigger and opinion and belief are of
no value in the real world.

The reason WWII was a success was the fact there was something to
replace the dictatorship--the Marshal Plan.  Nothing was in place to
replace the Iraqi dictatorship.  Here was another case of a minority
religion being abused by a tyrant.

How easily Christianity forgets the Crusades that made its way across
Europe pillaging and raping to liberate Jerusalem, the birthplace of
Christianity and Islam.  How the land of the Indians was confiscated
and their beliefs replaced with Christianity.  Then the matter of
slavery which was condoned by Christians in the Southern states.
Oh well--no use arguing with Hal who gladly changes the subject,
points the finger of blame at others.

OOPS, almost forgot the Inquisition.  Christians are still not GOOD people.
My opinion based on facts and history.

QuoteRay says: Oh well--no use arguing with Hal who gladly changes the subject,
points the finger of blame at others.

And where did I commit this deed?

To answer Hal's query:

(Ray, the question was asked of you but it applies to me as well...) so:

Where did you change the subject rather than replying with your own reasoned argument? In post #420 for one place!

You did not go through my post, questioning or correcting my assertions, you just pivoted, and observed that I sounded like a Liberal.

Is there anybody following this discussion who hadn't already filed that away? Better that we stay on message than to revert to irrelevancies.

To ponder: Is a Liberal inferior to a Conservative? What about a Liberal with conservative tendencies, and a Conservative with radical tendencies?

Does nobody else in here have opinions other than June, Hal, Ray and me? Going back through this discussion, I noted that a number of former participants seem to have been driven away by the bad vibe. Pity.

Periwinkle, speaking for myself, it is a bad day physically.

I am so very sorry to hear that June, and hope you will be feeling more yourself soon.

Periwinkle  ... 
I am a "bleeding Heart" liberal,  and in awe of the shenanigans going on in our government, today..

I choose not to post any longer but do watch MSNBC and CNN ...  The free "international versions of them"  as I recently "cut the cord and down sized my Spectrum Cable Internet service to "basic cable" ....   
   Which is saving me a tremdous amount of money, monthly ...   

I dispise Trump and all of the criminals (including himself)  that he has working for him... 

The US Government is now the laughing stock of the world since Trump became the president. 

Have a great evening and keep posting... I am going to go crawl back in my little hidey hole...

Sandy

Sandy, since you are such a big fan of MSNBC I guess you heard this lady telling all about Obama spying on Trumps team, unmasking, which is illegal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gapRNpEjXUo

Hal., Trump and his crew are free of shenanigans?  Trump's daughter
his advisor sitting in the White house.  She is as intelligent as a box
of rocks when it comes to government.  Maybe the whole family
should be there, because he needs more help than Fox News and Jerry Falwell.  Just my OPINION.

Hal....a question for curiosity's sake..........do you align your politics more toward the Freedom Caucus or the Tuesday group? Or either?

Does anyone else here want to weigh in on these factions? I would be interested.

The YouTube link was just a clip from Morning Joe, which, since I watch the show with my morning coffee every day, I had already seen. It has been misconstrued by the far right as proof that the Obama Administration spied on the Trump crowd, misused intel for political purposes, etc. ad nauseam.

"This lady" is Dr. Evelyn Farkas, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia.

Sandy, you probably find more comfort in your hidey hole than in here. I enjoy a political discussion between INFORMED parties, so will persist with hope a little longer.

perwinkle, I align myself with no one.  I am a Conservative and at the present not too happy with anyone in Washington, with the exception of Trump.  He has done more in the short time he has been in office than Obama did in his eight years.

About Farkas, you may have seen her but you certainly didn't listen to what she said, she admitted without hesitation that they listened in on Trumps transition team and wanted more.  Saying they didn't is simply either being untruthful or ignorant or simply ignoring the facts:

Transcript of her "confession"

"FARKAS: I was urging my former colleagues and, frankly speaking, the people on the Hill. It was more actually aimed at telling the Hill people: “Get as much information as you can. Get as much intelligence as you can before President Obama leaves the administration.” Because I had a fear that somehow that information would disappear with the senior people who left.

So it would be hidden away in the bureaucracy that the Trump folks, if they found out how we knew what we knew about the Trump staff dealing with Russians, that they would try to compromise those the sources and methods. Meaning we would no longer have access to that intelligence.

So I became very worried because not enough was coming out into the open, and I knew that there was more. We have very good intelligence on Russia. So then I had talked to some of my former colleagues and I knew that they were trying to also help get information to the Hill. That’s why you have the leaking."

Now perwinkle, how do you interpret her statement?

The main brouhaha at this time seems to be about Trump and family's money! Make me laugh as he and family made the money in the private sector. Many of the members of Congress made/took their money out of the public trough. When they aren't making money at our expense they are spending it on themselves--  think Pelosi   

Diglady, you sure have that right..Trump did not depend on the government or the private sector to make his fortune..he did it himself with his own brain and expertise. We are so fortunate not to have another Pig at the Trough.

Just about every major newspaper in the country tried to warn against Trump, but you folks wanted him and you got him. Now you can sit back and enjoy him.

Hal, I certainly did listen closely to Dr. Farkas, and understood her meaning. The far-right misinterpreted what she was saying and went wild. Incredible!

Perhaps it would have been more clear to ask if you LEAN TOWARD a moderate or a far-right position within your party. The word "align" seemed to rub you wrong.

But never mind that now. This whole exercise has been a silly waste of time.

Ah, periwinkle, does the name Susan Rice bring anything to mind?  Like unmasking and leaking.

As for me, I thought I told you I am a Conservative.

I don't guess you could tell me what Trump has done to upset you so much, well, of course he has kept his promises.  Which makes Liberals very unhappy.

Quote from: angelface555 on March 28, 2017, 08:59:09 PM
What this means literally besides your ISP having the legal right to sell your private info as they please, it also means that any corporation, entity, business, insert legal term here, has the legal right to sell any and all information of your info that they come in contact with to anyone. Basically, you now have no right to insist your info remain private. This includes not just public records that were available anyway, but all private records such as banking, medical, automotive, insurance, etc. I am sure there will be legal orders and injunctions popping up but perhaps too little too late.

Think of it this way, your insurance company could sell your medical information with name, address and phone number to a drug company, legally. or to a medical lobbyist.

Angel, previous to this "resolution" only Google and Facebook could collect your data, now all ISP and site can.  That is called leveling the playing field.  And Facebook and Google both did did/do sell you browsing history.  [/b]

perwinkle and Fran, I am sure you will agree with CNN.

CNN Goes on Rampage Against Susan Rice Bombshell, Instructs Viewers to Ignore Story

///snip///
"Last night, Lemon began "CNN Tonight" with an announcement that the Rice report a "fake scandal ginned up by right-wing media and Trump" that he would not be baited into justifying with coverage.

"On this program tonight, we will not insult your intelligence by pretending," it's legitimate, he said. "Nor will we aid and abet the people trying to misinform you, the American people, by creating a diversion. Not going to do it."
///snip///
///snip///
"Again, to note by senior intelligence officials who work for both Democrats and Republicans, this appears to be a story, largely ginned up, partly as a distraction from this larger investigation," Sciutto told Anderson Cooper, explaining that "someone close to Ambassador Rice" told him this type of unmasking is "not unusual."
///snip///

https://news.grabien.com/story-cnn-goes-rampage-against-susan-rice-bombshell-instructs-view

And we all know how truthful Susan is since she explained the Libyan attack where we lost our Ambassador and special forces members.  Because the liar in chief, Obama, wouldn't send some help.

Fresh evidence the Russia ‘scandal’ is a Team Obama operation
By Post Editorial Board

///snip///
It’s no surprise that US spooks intercept foreign officials’ calls. But intelligence community reports don’t disclose the names of US citizens on the other end. To get that info, a high official must (but rarely does) push to “unmask” the Americans’ names.

Bloomberg’s Eli Lake now reports that Rice started doing just that last year.

That was perfectly legal. But we also know that the Obama administration later changed the classification of the “unmasked” transcripts, and other similar material, in order to spread the information as widely as possible within the government.
///snip///

http://nypost.com/2017/04/03/fresh-evidence-the-russia-scandal-is-a-team-obama-operation/

Syria-Go Trump! Has to clean up what Obama failed to do even tho he said  they crossed his red line!

I watched Justice Neil Gorsuch being sworn in this morning. It was almost a family type feeling and our President did a very warm and welcome presentation of the ceremony. This is Government at it's best.

Saturday, coming up, the people will again take to the streets with posters to try to get a message out to Trump. He doesn't read the papers (or books, I understand), but when he sees pictures of the various marches around the country (this one will probably be world-side, since it is a march to preserve science as a free discipline, a.o.) he might be able to decipher the words on all the signs.
"The March for Science is the first step of a global movement to defend the vital role science plays in our health, safety, economies, and governments."
Yes, I will be marching in the city of my birth with my family. I'm sure other friends will be out there in there home towns. This is the peaceful way to protest wrongs, without weapons.

Have a good weekend.

gee rutumi I didn't know Trump was against scientist.  Could you please give me more information on this interesting fact and when he stated he was against science in society.  Thank You

These "marches" accomplish absolutely nothing good. They arouse more animosity among citizens, they end up in jail or hospitals, they arouse hate, and take the time from the police, the hospitals, the firemen, the storekeepers, and cause more hatred than ever before.

June, do you think they really care?  They just don't want to accept facts or authority.

How about Pres. Trump's disregard for the Environment.  Cut the funds way back--doesn't seem to believe in the Global Warming warnings from the world's major scientists?

SCFSue

When the idiots stop saying global warming is man made maybe more people will listen.
Bering Straits opened 12,000 years ago. Why? How?

Caves in the France are now being uncovered and teams have found humans lived in the caves 35,000 years ago! Hmm

What is amiss here? Do you think that 'global warming" maybe cyclical? May be natural?

Oh Dear ! Gore can't be wrong!    

Diglady , 

Sue, which world renown scientist would they be? Oh, and would you mind telling me what their field of study is.